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looking at how active Semantic Web stuff is now, out of curiosity it seems that is just a CFP spam site now there is some activity on none of the recent stuff seems to be SW related though some people refuse to give up let's try selckin: who? only a few edits to this over the past year mostly on it seems appears to be some sort of not very good schema thing, though ericP did make one of the implementations the site that the IG page links to doesn't even respond and is a "Discontinued service" the CG page at asks for log in the RDFa WG is listed as active but according to it was closed in 2015 same with the RDF WG but says that was closed in 2014 the LDP WG closed in 2014 too, ah, an explanation: "A few days ago W3C started a new activity, called Data Activity, that also subsumes the (by now old) Semantic Web Activity." — strange that the SW page itself doesn't explain that heh, dsr is the lead. well how about that they have a "Dataset Exchange Working Group", trying to work out what this is they were working on DCAT, but that was RECed in 2014: oh I see. it goes dc > dct > dcat then there's which is a rights policy thing I dunno if the W3C should be working on anything rights related these days. they seem to abrogate their responsibilities to society as hard as they can there's also which says that DCAT has some shortcomings they want to address. that's been three years in the making then... (uses ReSpec. "ReSpec is a document production toolchain, with a notable focus on W3C specifications.") there's also the POE WG, which is actually doing the rights thing rather than DX WG: (see above) SD WG are working on spatial data: ah, and the Data Shapes WG seems to be covering the ShEx thing I found above: seems to have been active, with Sandro no less, up to 2017: shame really; I thought Sandro would continue to go on to do more interesting things it's like when you see tech stars from the 1980s and they're on twitter moaning about Trump and then others are writing lisp machine hardware verified in Coq or something heh, is said to be active but was closed this year aand the Data Activity blog hasn't been updated since 2015: .t sbp: Sorry, I don't know what timezone that is. If in doubt, see for a list of options. what .title 403 - Forbidden Access to The Digital Library "hat Happened To The Semantic Web?" no PDF of the paper that I can find, but slides: says that 2001-2004 was the golden age then 2006 introduced Linked Data ah, there we go: "Current status (2017)" reduced standardisation (not kidding), narrower research focus (is there ANY research?), and maturing technology the technology is Neo4j, Virtuoso, and Allegrograph. plus Oracle and Microsoft stuff that I won't even bother to mention says that a big problem was that ontologies were centralised (sigh), and data held privately (well, we should have seen that one coming). also, no use of Linked Data because of trust issues! what happened to the crypto that I helped timbl add to CWM then, eh? eh? mentions FOAF eventually quietly mentions the fact that the web has changed, data silos, all that "Some useful data", cites schema.org, dbpedia, and wikidata not exactly a competitor to WolframAlpha though is it? funny, really. again one centralised site is the leader in a space that should have been covered by Semantic Web technologies. actually that would have been a really nice thing to push for. probably still would be, though I tend to want my local computer to be able to do those sorts of calculations like the other day I wanted to compute the prime factors of a number. didn't really have anything lying around that does it in the stdlib, so eventually I downloaded sage. but that's 4 GB of stuff! you'd think we'd be able to get batteries included standard library balances right by now .title As of 2015, is the semantic web dead? - Quora heh, hadn't seen before Alan Morrison answers: "The thing about the semantic web idea is that the development cycle has turned out to be the opposite of what Tim Berners-Lee anticipated in the early 1990s. With the semantic web concept, TBL hoped for a giant structured open web. What we got first was a bunch of closed structured webs and a mixed web that still isn’t very well structured." it's not like open things can't work. Wikipedia is a good example of that, despite the deletionism Shidan Gouran: "Definitely RDF/XML is dead as a data exchange format, and soon, XML will become obsolete as well, which is a good thing." I haven't seen anything XML based in years, except I guess for the continued use of SVG on the other hand argues that the SW achieved what it set out to do, just somewhat quietly it seems to base that conclusion on schema.org alone .title The Semantic Web is dead. Long live the Semantic Web. "But let’s stop arguing over details and terminology. Let’s forget about RDF, SPARQL, OWL, triple stores and quad stores for a moment. Instead, let’s take a step back and look at the high-level goal of the Semantic Web." yeah, well, it did get lost in those details kinda hard to ignore that "If you are a developer you may be able to query APIs or write a custom scraper to get the data you need, and then write code to aggregate them into something meaningful. But in many cases even that wouldn’t be feasible due to technical, legal or time constraints." basically argues that the contemporary web didn't learn from the Semantic Web at all also asks: "Did the API Economy succeed where the Semantic Web failed?" I find the API economy such a pain in the arse. I tend to write scrapers instead, because I find that those are usually more stable than the APIs. it's ridiculous how often I have signed up for a key, used a JSONic API, only to find that either the key issuing process changes and I have to sign up for a new one, or the API breaks in any of a myriad unfathomable ways "Technologies like JSON-LD may change this." I have never seen any JSON-LD three years ago: "JSON-LD, which is a profound improvement on and compatible with the original RDF, is the only web metadata standard with a viable future." 'On a more down-to-earth level, there is now a solid web metadata standard in place in JSON-LD. The big search engines index it and presumably use it to give better results. Any startup can add value to published data by adding links - in a significant extension to the "API economy".' *lots* of chatter about JSON-LD here from 2010, but it's funny because Wikipedia says: "The encoding is used by Google Knowledge Graph[6] and others[who?]." one of the top results for JSON-LD is an SEO weblog saying: "In this post, we'll shed some light on Schema.org and JSON-LD. What is it and how can you put it to use for your website?" lots more SEO posts too something more recent: so I guess JSON-LD was the latest fad, covering about 2010 to 2014 mostly in conjunction with schema.org Manu Sporny on the creation of JSON-LD: "RDF is a shitty data model. It doesn’t have native support for lists. LISTS for fuck’s sake! The key data structure that’s used by almost every programmer on this planet and RDF starts out by giving developers a big fat middle finger in that area." I mean, it absolutely did have lists, and N3 showed how to do it it didn't have them as an enclosed object though. I wonder if it should have done, a bit like how Haskell has Text now (opaque blob) as well as String (inductive data structure) you can unpack one to get the other. Text is for representational efficiency 'That said, after 7+ years of being involved with Semantic Web / Linked Data, our company has never had a need for a quad store, RDF/XML, N3, NTriples, TURTLE, or SPARQL. When you chair standards groups that kick out “Semantic Web” standards, but even your company can’t stomach the technologies involved, something is wrong.' now he can add JSON-LD to that list :-) lots of people I remember mentioned in the Postscript there's also a bit on which takes the Betteridge's law tack so we had the Semantic Web (2001-2005), Linked Data (2006-2010), JSON-LD (2010-2014), and now the Data Activity (2015-) rump. some interesting phases there. I stopped working on this in 2007, so that explains why I hadn't heard of JSON-LD (actually I had) these days I tend to think that the problem with the Semantic Web was not the Semantic part, it was the Web part. renting a domain from ICANN, putting it through the torture of DNS, serving things over HTTP/2 (Google Lightning™), through centralised CAs, it's not the easiest thing to do and it's not the cheapest thing to do so people share through centralised services, and we get the problem that Peter Mika pointed out but the original idea, which is something like upgrading the lisp machine from trees to graphs (incurring a bunch of algorithmically intractable problems like graph isomorphism in the process, whoops! nobody ever said timbl was a great coder), making symbols global and universal, and then linking together all the graphs in a decentralised system, was actually a pretty good one if only we had a decentralised system to put it into, eh? these days we have the blockchain for name resolution, but nobody has figured out a decent DNS alternative through it yet (there have been many attempts). actually the best alternative is still Tor's .onion, which is kinda funny. and as for decentralised storage, IPFS was the closest there, but that seems to be losing traction too so no Semantic Decentralised Web is possible just yet so yeah, the Semantic Web may be out of the golden age, but I think like lisp it'll be one of those things that sticks around and gets rediscovered over and over, continually informing (and warning) the future oh, no chump bot either? timbl: what are you working on these days? I saw a lot about HTML EME, but I don't suppose that's your main preoccupation, and the Data Activity at the W3C doesn't seem all that active Data Activity, that's a new buzzword... I miss the old CWM and Tabulator days. exciting times! ww dips in and out of this stuff... always liked "semantic web"... I didn't always like it, but over time you learn to separate the wheat from the chaff and certain features reveal themselves as having been valuable in hindsight that you might not have paid sufficient attention to at the time actually, ipfs with a tor hidden service front end is not a bad pattern... we did something similar a while back with zooko et al doing that with tahoe-lafs yeah, I think it's pretty much tahoe-lafs next generation sbp: i meant as a name for the thing there's also crap like filecoin oh, I see who are you, ww? somebody whom I know? I don't recognise your nickname if you know zooko then I assume we have overlapping social circles you're also at Edinburgh, where I remember a handful of Semantic Web folk were based in the golden age ww looks for dc_swig I don't know you. pleased to meet you though that's my very out of date homepage likewise especially as an ORG member hhalpin and i overlapped here a little Harry I know very slightly I think dajobe ran dc_swig. perhaps mentioning his name will summon him though, I think we can conclude from my investigation above, the presence or not of both dc_swig and the logger are probably somewhat moot in this day and age oh, one thing I did find recently that reminded me of the proof/trust layer in the Semantic Web cake graph was keybase they have a load of stuff going on, it's pretty good reading a few problems though, like through their client you just have arbitrary write access to people's hard drives but they have some good ideas. is like a decentralised key signing party minor issue... (all based in centralised services of course) yeah, just a tiny thing they also had some format for crypto exchange somewhere... it wasn't they had some separate site for it found it: .title saltpack - a modern crypto messaging format I think the biggest aspect of the Semantic Web, one that I haven't mentioned in my somewhat dispassionate research above, for me on a personal level was the society. I made lifelong friends like libby (hey libs!), and some people really helped to nurture and mentor me like DanC and AaronSw I didn't really appreciate at the time just how much DanC did for me and I miss those times when DanC and AaronSw and I would be up all night just bantering about random stuff. I look back on it now and there's still so much palpable excitement when I started doing this, I didn't even know how to program. it's strange to think back over nearly two decades now and think where I was when this started! I knew some BASIC and a very little bit of C. next thing I know, AaronSw is teaching me regular expressions and I'm hacking together RDF triple databases in Python I'm glad that there are still exciting things going on. there's the blockchain space, language design giving us things like rust and idris, we have HoTT (I was very sad to hear about the recent passing of Vladimir Voedovsky). but I do feel a lot more mental friction now without people like AaronSw around, and DanC off doing other things in different circles of life
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